Exclusive: The Real Emily Speaks! Leslie Fremar on the Era That Inspired The Devil Wears Prada

This is The Run-Through.

I'm Chloe Malle and I am so excited

for this extremely important exclusive podcast

with Leslie Fremar.

The Real Emily Revealed.

Leslie, I'm so excited about this.

We've all been talking about this for a few weeks

and it just means a lot to me

and the podcast that you're coming on

because I was really touched when we spoke on the phone

and you shared that this had just been something

that you had not talked about for a while

and just have a lot of questions.

I'm very curious. I don't think

I've ever actually really talked about it.

Why are you open to talking about this now

and why do you think people are so fascinated

by this story of who these characters really are?

I don't know, I think at the time, 20 years ago,

the fashion industry was very hush hush

and it was like an inner circle type situation.

And I feel like when she wrote the book,

no one really knew much about it

because everyone, not that it was secretive

but it was just hard to break in

and exclusive. It was more insular.

Yeah, very.

So I think at that time people found that really interesting

to get a real insider view

because no one frankly would've exposed it

quite like that.

So I think that that was really interesting.

I think the movie did a great job

at kind of fictionalizing it.

And making it a little bit more fun

than maybe it actually is or was,

but I quite enjoyed the movie, you know, as entertainment.

So I think that people see it, the fashion industry maybe

as entertainment, I don't know.

Well we'll come back to that,

but first I wanna start that you are now 25 years later,

an extremely successful stylist.

You've styled Charlize Theron for a long time,

many other people.

I wanted to talk a bit about your early career in fashion,

but I also wanna talk about what is the most exciting part

of your current job and what you love to do the most.

Are you doing anything for Ken?

I'm actually not this year.

I find in my career, I've,

I don't wanna say slowed down,

but I've really tightened up the jobs

that I do now 25 years later.

Just, you know, I have kids and a busy family

and just trying to balance it all.

And I think when I was really in the height

and thick of the whole thing, I was never home

and I was always on a plane and traveling, flying.

So personally I have pulled back a lot.

And I'm just really selective on my current jobs

that I do, I couldn't give it up completely

'cause I'm very passionate about it.

And it really is a part of me.

I don't work every single day if that makes sense.

Well, good for you. I just, today actually,

Charlize is climbing a billboard in Times Square

for her new movie Apex.

We just came off the tour.

Wow. Yesterday we did

five changes.

Wow! In a day, yeah.

Oh my god, just list what those are

'cause I feel like people, especially with

The Devil Wears Prada 2 press tour being

in such high octane go mode,

but people don't really understand

how intense these days can be for everyone on those teams.

So like, what is the five changes

of a day on a press tour for Charlize?

So we flew in the day before from LA,

so we're all completely jet lagged.

Wake up at five in the morning,

start glam, go to The Today Show.

Take the look from The Today Show

and we go and change her.

We went to ride the subway for an hour

to do a podcast on the subway.

Then we went to The View,

changed her when she got to The View.

We had a little break, went to Jimmy Fallon,

changed at the hotel.

Left for Jimmy Fallon.

At Jimmy Fallon, we changed her for the premiere

and went to the premiere.

That is a crazy day. It was a really long day.

This is something that came up

because at The Devil Wears Prada 2 premiere on Monday,

we were all noticing how hard it is

to coordinate four main stars together.

And like I loved Emily Blunt in the Capparelli,

but it wasn't really like a group photo dress.

And I wonder like, are you talking

to other co-stars stylists for their press tours?

Like what is that process like?

I personally don't, actually, I probably should

after seeing that photo,

but there's so much prep that goes into it.

And it's really done in advance that it's hard to work

with someone else and take that into consideration.

Like we're moving really fast.

So I think unfortunately for those group photos,

maybe those girls spoke a lot of red was worn.

It was like bridesmaids where Anne and Meryl got the memo.

I know. And they all looked great.

It just, as a group it was, there was dissonance.

Yes, I agree with you.

It's very hard to do.

And I think, you know,

people changed their mind last minute

and you have like kind of a selection of pieces

and you know, you try to schedule it out in advance,

but then things change and something breaks

or, you know, things you can't anticipate.

So I don't think it would add an extra challenge

to then consider a costar.

Okay, we're rewinding though

to what year are we when you first graduate college

and you're starting your career in fashion

and you're going to Conde HR?

1999.

So it's 1999. Yeah.

It's almost Y2K. Yeah.

What did you know about Vogue, Anna Wintour,

Conde Nast, when you went in for that first interview?

I knew who Anna was.

I interned at a local magazine in Canada

when I was in high school.

I was always-- You grew up in Toronto?

Yes, in Toronto.

I loved photography growing up.

I dabbled a little in modeling, wasn't for me.

Ended up having an interview with, at the time,

her name was Bucky Keady in HR.

I was interning at Harper's Bazaar

in the accessories department.

And someone mentioned

that there was an opening in the beauty department.

Okay. I interviewed for that job.

With Amy Astley?

With Amy. Okay.

Yes, I did not get that job.

She actually hired Tinsley Mortimer.

Wow!

Amy Astley,

who was the longtime beauty editor at Vogue,

then the founding editor of Teen Vogue

and now the esteemed editor of Architectural Digest.

Correct, so I interviewed with her

and I didn't get the job.

Tinsley got the job.

And so then Bucky actually called me back to let me know

that I didn't get the job and asked me if I wanted

to come in to interview for Anna's second assistant.

And did you know what that meant?

No.

You know, I'm from Canada

and I was really just, I don't wanna say desperate.

But I needed to work and I wanted a job in fashion

and no better place than to learn from her.

And obviously Vogue for me was the dream.

I didn't necessarily think it was gonna be my first job.

It ended up being my first job.

And so what was your first interview with Anna like?

Or your only interview with Anna?

I remember it clearly, I remember what I wore.

I wore Jill Stewart.

Okay. I was wearing a navy blue

button up shirt

tucked into kind of an A-line black skirt.

And then the girls at Harper's lent me a pair

of Jimmy Choo pumps from the closet.

And they had a little bow on them.

I didn't necessarily feel like myself,

but I felt like I was dressing for the job.

And what was the interview process like?

I met with Bucky, then I met with Jill Demling,

who is the first assistant at the time.

This is Jill Demling, who then went on

to be the longtime entertainment editor at Vogue.

Then I met with Anna.

And what were your first impressions of Anna

and also the whole ecosystem at Vogue?

I was petrified, to be honest.

I was so nervous.

I think I blacked out, I don't even remember.

I think she asked me what book I was reading,

where I was from, and why I wanted to work there.

And I think she was desperate for an assistant.

And that's why I got the job.

Devil Wears Prada became such a phenomenon that anyone

who took a job in Anna's office or really at Vogue

after that, there was that base level of awareness of

what a version of working at Vogue was like.

But when you started, there was nothing like that.

What was the onboarding process like?

I mean, I did not know anything.

I remember she asked me for tickets for that ferry

that goes around Manhattan, I think it's called Circle Line.

And I didn't even know what Circle Line was.

Why is she going on the Circle Line?

I swear. I remember that.

It's not like you are savvy like you are now,

where you're like, just looking everything up

on the internet and it's like right there.

Like, I was like asking, I was like, what is Circle Line?

Everyone's like rolling their eyes.

They're like, it's the ferry, and I was like, ugh.

And you can't ask Anna for clarification.

No, you can't. It almost becomes

a parlor game of sorts around the office

sometimes to either decipher her handwriting

or figure out what she means by something.

And with the handwriting, oh my god,

that's actually comedy.

I was like, you know what?

My dad has kind of this scribble.

So I was kind of used to it.

There's certain people in the office who are known

for being good at it

and they take great pride in deciphering.

There's a moment in the book

where there's a long sequence about

how the Andy Sachs character trying to figure out

what Miranda meant by a restaurant review in The Post.

Yes. And about

a new Asian fusion restaurant.

And she cannot figure it out.

And it turns out it's not The New York Post,

it was The Washington Post.

And it's this big aha moment.

Did you have any great quest

for understanding like that?

Oh my god.

Like she had all these friends that I had to learn

and I didn't know who they were.

Can you spell Gamana? That I can do.

But there were other things like Lord Rothchild

and like just how to like kind of address people

and you know, she had friends

that their calls would always roll through

and others that I would have to, you know,

take a message and just like learning.

Who taught you that, those nuances?

Definitely Jill. Yeah.

Jill was very Type A.

She was the senior assistant, like really strict.

She ran a tight ship in Anna's office.

Absolutely.

You know, we became friends,

but I definitely learned a lot from her.

Was there like a booklet of the rules?

Because some of the more recent assistants really rely on

this like 20 page document that is continually updated

with each outgoing class. Oh!

Really? Yeah.

Oh no, I wonder who wrote the original.

I know, it's a good question actually.

I did not have that.

So you just had Jill? Yes.

What were some of the most challenging learning curves

for the first year of getting, or the first few months?

Well, I mean, answering the phones and taking messages

and making sure that she knows, you know,

who she wanted to speak to.

Whose call would roll.

Is this email? No.

Is there any email at this point?

No.

I would fax her newspapers when she was in Paris

and we would type out, yeah, there was email.

But she wasn't on it.

Right, a lot is going through the phone.

Oh everything. Which now, you know,

it's a totally different ballgame.

Right.

No, she did not have email.

We would print out if someone emailed her

and give it to her physically,

or we would write her messages on what we called the board.

And it would get updated.

It would say the time.

The message, the phone number of

who she needs to call back.

That was described very in great detail in the book.

Yes. Which I think

was very accurate.

Oh yes.

And then it's presented to her.

Oh it is?

Oh, that's amazing.

Wow, good for her.

Well it would go on top of the desk

and she would grab it.

And then she would return her calls.

She returned everything

and then we would just check it off when it was done.

You declined to become the first assistant

when you were first offered the promotion.

Correct. Tell me more.

I was just like learning the job

and Jill had been there for a while

and she was ready to move on.

How long are you in the office at this point?

I wanna say six months. Okay, so not even a year.

No. Because a typical tenure

for second assistant

and first assistant is one to two years.

Yes.

I'd say I was there for six months, maybe eight.

But Jill was really ready to move on

and she kept convincing me that I was ready

and I was like, I am not ready.

You know, because there was like very distinct roles.

The first assistant would do like all of her scheduling

and maybe more like business related stuff.

And then the second assistant at the time would do more

of the personal stuff, getting her coffee, her lunch,

you know, making sure her car was there, much simpler

or what seemed to me as simpler tasks at the time.

So when she offered me the promotion,

I said, no thank you.

And what made you come around?

I think Anna called Jill in the office

and was like, Jill, you need to convince her.

That's nice. I was like

I knew I couldn't say no.

What are your like core memories of that first year

working for Anna with Jill?

I mean, it felt to me like grad school.

Like this is like the best grad school.

Like I just got into Harvard grad school.

To me, that's what it felt like.

Anna had no boundaries

where we could listen in on her calls.

Her doors are open for meetings.

Like if you really were to pay attention, so much to learn.

And I actually did feel that

and appreciated that even though I was like young

and green and just didn't really know.

It was all moving really fast it felt like to me.

But I was there, I was in the heart of it.

And the people that you're networking with.

You know, invaluable.

Everything just felt,

I felt really lucky to be honest.

Did your friends and family understand?

No, and actually, I'm the type of person

that doesn't gloat or like just overshare.

I was just like, this is my job.

Like, please stop asking me questions.

But everyone always had questions.

I'm kind of like that.

Yeah. I'm reserved

and I was like, you know, it's work.

And I would just shut it down.

What was it like, I mean, I was shocked even knowing

what the intensity of Anna's office that in the book,

Andy can't answer a personal phone call

and say a one word, yes.

Correct. Was that?

I don't know if that's true.

But like your parents wouldn't call you at work?

Oh, absolutely not. And they knew that.

Yes. = I mean that's pretty rare.

Yes. It's like the military.

Yes. There was nothing personal.

Nothing personal happened in there.

Right. Anna didn't ask us

personal questions.

I didn't ask the junior personal questions.

It was like business was moving.

Well, as the junior,

I would have to be at the desk at 7:30

and she would call.

And then in the evening, you were leaving with the book?

Whatever time it was finished.

9:00, 10:00. Yeah.

And so then you moved to Sullivan Street

so you could be closer to the book drop off.

That's real commitment.

It's good for your sleep.

HR told me that I had to be at work at 7:30

and I panicked because coming out of college,

I don't even think I'd woken up before 9:00 ever.

So that made me nervous.

And then realizing that I had to wait

until this book was done, you know, before I got to go home.

And just remind people what we mean by the book.

We don't mean The Devil Wears Prada.

It was a mockup of the magazine where

basically they would paste in the stories from the front

of the book, you know, center of the book,

all the fashion stories. In like a spiral ring.

Yes, it would mimic the magazine

and Anna was able to remove pages and make changes

or she would put post-its.

Lots of post-it notes, like, I don't like this.

Kill this. See me.

Yeah, move this.

Oh my god, so many see mes.

So then I'd have to get the book.

She would hand me the book when she came

in the morning, go through all the see mes.

Then I'd have to call

and be like, Anna wants to see you.

And everyone would be like, roll their eyes

behind the scenes like, oh, there's so many post-its today.

And by the end of the month,

the post-its kind of got smaller.

It's true, you hope they winnow down.

And they do.

We are obviously here because I reached out

because I'd heard over the years, oh, you know,

the real Emily was maybe Leslie, maybe Jill,

Kay Young was in Anna's office around that time.

But we'd never met and I never talked to you directly.

So we're doing a event for our book club on Monday

and we're having a conversation afterward.

And I was like, it'd be fun to have anyone

who has a suggestion of who Emily might be.

And Plum Sykes is like,

her daughters thinks she's the Emily,

she's definitely not, which she's now debunked.

But then we spoke on the phone

and you very sort of frankly said, well,

it's not really up for discussion.

I hired Lauren

and we sat across from each other for eight months.

Have you ever talked about this before?

No, I haven't. Do you feel confidently

that you are the real Emily?

No, I know I am, yes.

Correct.

I am Emily.

I'm fascinated by memoirs in general

and how your own story is always someone else's story too.

And that's something I've, you know, struggled with.

I've done non-fiction writing

and I just have never felt comfortable publishing it.

Because you're worried about other people in your life.

And so I do think that most memoir writers

and fiction writers, because most fiction is based on

something, it's a difficult needle to thread.

And I wonder, when was the first

time you heard about this book?

So I was actually working for Tonne Goodman at the time.

I had left Anna's office.

Who was Vogue's fashion director at the time.

So I had expressed interest to Anna that I wanted

to work in the fashion department

and that I really wanted to work on set.

And she told me that she couldn't give me the job,

but she would allow me to interview for it.

So I interviewed with Tonne

and ended up moving into the fashion department, cut to,

I'm in Tonne's office that we shared at the time.

And I get a call from Anna's office saying that she wanted

to see me and my heart sunk.

I was like, she never would call in an assistant

into her office.

So then I went into her office, she said,

who's Lauren Weisberger?

And I said, she was your junior assistant.

She was only here for a short period of time,

maybe eight months.

And she's like, well, she wrote a book about us

and you're worse than me.

And I was like, I wanted to like ask more questions,

but you can't really ask her that many questions.

And I was like, okay.

And she's like, well, I received the galley,

which is like a book before it's published

and she let me read it.

It was actually quite mean, the galley,

and I think obviously an editor came in

and really softened it and made it.

In what ways do you remember?

I don't remember exactly,

but everyone just wasn't,

there wasn't this like lightness to it.

It felt quite dark I remember thinking,

and I found that quite hurtful.

I think what got put into the world is a much lighter,

nicer version of what she actually wrote.

So I think that's what kind of lives in my mind

because that's what ended up being put out there.

But I remember feeling like it was a betrayal

at the time, you know?

People weren't like very public about their jobs

and everything was not secretive,

but like, you just didn't talk about it.

And it was like, it just felt this exposure,

even though someone obviously advised her

to make it fiction, it was really based off of a lot

of things that, you know, I lived, she lived.

Did you recognize things you had said?

Definitely, yeah.

I definitely told her a million girls

would kill for the job. That was your line.

That was definitely my line

'cause I actually really believed that

and I knew that she didn't necessarily wanna be there.

I'm just curious, when Anna gave you the galley,

did you like take it immediately into the hallway

and like start reading?

I think that's probably what I would do.

Did you wait till you got home?

I waited until I got home.

I think we were like really busy.

Like Tonne was probably packing up for a big photo shoot

and I was like, oh my god.

Like what is this thing gonna say?

But immediately you knew

it was gonna be about your time with Lauren.

Can you describe your process of hiring Lauren

or how you knew that you were

the Emily character she describes in the book?

I mean, to be honest, Lauren didn't really

socialize with anyone else.

So I think her experience at Vogue was really

with me and with Anna.

You know, you're quite busy in the office,

so you don't have much time to, you have to make an effort

to make friends outside the office, which I did.

You're just really busy.

And I think she also had a learning curve

'cause she just graduated from college

and I had to teach her all of these things

and she didn't really know who anyone was either.

And I could relate to that.

And I remember, I mean,

we had a nice conversation when I interviewed her

and she is very smart.

I just felt like she would be able to get it quickly.

Was it true that she was open, that she wanted

to work at The New Yorker?

Yes.

She didn't tell me that,

but she told the managing editor at the time

that she really wanted to be a writer.

And I recall her taking a writing test

and, you know, things didn't necessarily go her way.

And they suggested that she take this class.

And I think the story that I was told was that this teacher,

or you know, this course kind of said, write what you know.

And I think, you know, as the story goes,

that's where it started.

Her and I never talked about it.

And we never talked again after she left.

You've never seen her? No.

In 20 years. No.

Wow.

What do you think it would be like if you guys reunited?

I think it would be very awkward.

I mean, I don't hold a grudge towards her,

but it's just, it became something

that I don't think she knew that I knew.

And so I think it would just, there's nothing to be said.

What is similar to the book,

and obviously now we associate so much the her,

the Andy Sachs character with the movie,

but was she a fish out of water in as extreme a way

as she presents it?

Yes, I do think she was,

I recall she had just graduated from Cornell

and felt like maybe getting coffee

and, you know, hamburgers

and mashed potatoes was like below her.

I came from Canada, I couldn't really relate to

that Ivy mentality,

but I think she just felt like the tasks at hand

were below her.

Yeah. Yeah.

Did Anna eat hamburgers and mashed potatoes?

Yes. Wow.

From the Royalton, I think.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Either a steak or a hamburger really rare.

Yeah. Baked potato,

mashed potatoes.

Yeah. That was like the diet.

At the time.

What do you remember being

the hardest learning curve for her?

For me, the driving force,

and I can only speak for myself,

was that I really loved fashion

and wanted my career long term to be in fashion.

I loved the photo shoots.

I love photography, I love clothes, I love the art of it.

And I think for her, the end game was different.

I think she wanted to be a writer.

Not that she couldn't get things out of that experience

that would help a writing career.

Obviously she did.

But I think the fashion part of it

just did not interest her.

I wanna do a little fact versus fiction

because a lot of us at Vogue,

when we were talking about picking this book

as our next book club, realized

that no one had read the book.

We all had just seen the movie.

And reading it, it's sort of fascinating to hear about

what it was like working at Vogue in the early aughts,

but also wondering what was actually true

and what she sort of, you know, largely fictionalized.

So I do think it's amazing that one

of the most infamous lines in the movie,

not everyone was saying it.

Just you were saying it.

I think I definitely said it.

Something I would say.

Which is a million women would kill for this job.

Girls.

Yes.

And earlier this month when I interviewed some

of Anna's more recent assistants, we were talking about

how the gird your loins moment really was quite similar

to what would happen.

Can you describe what it was like

when Anna would arrive? Oh my god.

It was such panic, but you had to hide it.

Yeah. And I think over time,

it went away.

I wasn't afraid of her by the end,

but at the beginning I definitely was.

And I'm sure Lauren felt like, you know, I can't speak

for her, but I'm sure she felt

nervous when she would arrive.

So she would arrive all of the newspapers,

The Times, Washington Post, The New York Post,

The Daily Mail, every newspaper

had to be kind of laid out in a fan.

And when would she actually read those?

Oh, she would, she would

sit there and go through all of them.

I don't know, front to back,

but she would definitely read the front pages,

the interesting stories.

She was definitely kept up on current affairs.

And when she was arriving, would you switch shoes?

Would you change?

What was that?

I always had Birkenstocks under my desk.

I would put on heels when she arrived.

She definitely caught me a few times.

Like she would call me from the elevator bank

and be like, I forgot, can you bring it?

And I'd already changed my shoes

and I would like run out with her, whatever she forgot.

And she would like not even look at me

and like, be looking at my feet.

I think she knew that I would do that.

So that is true.

Actually, I don't know if I would survive all day in heels.

It's so hard.

Yeah, so I couldn't,

and there's a lot of running around and you know,

if she's not there, like I just wanted

to be comfortable.

Oh I have a million pairs of Birkenstocks.

I have every color.

Wow. Yeah.

Okay, so that's been a consistent wardrobe staple.

Yes, I've even been in Birkenstock ads.

I have a long relationship with Birkenstock.

I'm very passionate about Birkenstock.

I wanna know, did you ever go to Paris with Anna?

No, Anna did not travel with her assistants.

That is fiction.

There was a woman in the Paris office

that would assist Anna when she was there.

Her name was Fiona.

Fiona's still there.

Oh really?

So yes.

One of the big plot points in the book

and the movie is that Andy gets to go to Paris

instead of Emily.

And it's this great betrayal of Emily.

Was there ever a situation like that?

No. Okay.

Yeah, I think the fiction part of the book is

that this character turns into this superstar.

And I did not witness that.

I think this idea

that the Emily character is not very pleasant or nice

or seems high strung

is because I probably was not very nice.

And I probably was high strung

because I felt like I was having

to do her job as well.

So for me, that was really frustrating.

I think she was probably just sitting there writing a book

and not necessarily taking the job

as seriously as I did.

Or you know, a hundred million girls would.

So I think that that probably

created some tension in the office

where maybe I would snap at her

or you know, she just didn't wanna play the game.

Were there rules you passed down to her

and rules that Jill passed down to you

and were some of those rules not actually from Anna?

I don't think any of the rules

are actually from Anna to be honest.

There were rules that were passed down to me that were like,

I couldn't eat at my desk.

You couldn't go to the bathroom

unless one of the assistants had to be there at all times.

So if you have to ask the senior assistant,

like if you could go use the restroom.

Her checks were all typed out on a typewriter.

At the time, we had these messenger slips,

I'm sure it's all digital now,

but you'd have to fill them out.

Like if I needed something sent to her house

or picked up, we had to type them on a typewriter.

Oh wow, you couldn't write it.

We couldn't write it.

And everything that came out

of her office had to like be very presentable.

Jill leaves, I go into the first seat

and I'm like, this is all a huge waste of time.

Like why am I sitting here on a typewriter

typing this thing, I can write it in five minutes.

So I just started writing them.

And Anna never said anything, she didn't care.

I don't think she noticed.

Did you start eating at your desk?

So yes, I think I started eating, maybe not something

that was very fragrant, but I definitely ate

much more than drinking a smoothie behind my computer.

Which was what I was told was allowed.

You were never on a diet

where when you felt faint you'd eat a piece of cheese?

I probably did when I was the junior.

Because I was told that I wasn't allowed to eat at my desk

and I had to sit there all day.

I wasn't allowed to leave.

But when I moved into the role, when the book was kind of

came into life, I ate.

That's so funny.

Is the dry cleaning and and laundry situation

the same as the book?

No, it was just dry cleaning.

She would bring in her dry cleaning

and we would separate the dry cleaning.

You know, couture would go to Madan Paulette

and the regular dry cleaning would go somewhere else

and the senior assistant at the time would

also do the expenses.

So that was all something that we had to keep track of.

That is true.

What about the Harry Potty?

Harry Potter manuscript?

I don't recall.

I would have to fact check that.

The timing of when Harry Potter came out.

There were definitely requests that were like that

about getting things, you know, that weren't available.

Wow. Yeah.

So we already talked a little bit about

when Anna called you in,

you got the galley, you read it.

How did that percolate around the office?

I don't remember if it was gossiped about like,

I don't know if I'm not the type of person that would,

you know, run around and be like,

oh my God, there's a book coming out.

I think I kind of kept it to myself.

So I'm not really sure who was in the inner circles

of knowing that that was happening.

So you read the galley

and you thought I obviously I see myself in this

because this was my role.

But what did you recognize

and what upset you as being not accurate?

I mean, I knew it was me.

You know, Lauren and I had spent

these eight months together.

It's a really intense relationship.

You know, you're working together from 7:30 in the morning

till 7:30 at night

and you know, day in, day out, weekends,

obviously you're not working on the weekends,

but it's possible that you would have to.

So I think that relationship is really intense

and you rely on each other.

Would I have considered her a friend?

No.

Like, we didn't necessarily socialize,

but I think that that was also something

that was taught to me.

Like Anna didn't really socialize with us.

She wasn't like asking us like, how was your weekend?

So I think in the office, that wasn't really a ritual for me

to like talk to her.

But I did meet her boyfriend

and I did know personal things about her

and we definitely had a relationship.

Obviously, I got frustrated with her.

So I think that that's where that mean part

in her perspective probably came from.

But it definitely, to me at the time,

felt like a betrayal.

I was like, oh my god, I spent

so much time with this person.

And she didn't give you a heads up?

No. You never

ran into her after. No.

But you did run into her boyfriend.

Yeah. What was

that interaction like?

Oh my god, he was like, are you okay?

Like, are you so pissed?

And I was like, I came to terms with it too

because the book wasn't as bad.

So I was kind of just laughed it off.

But it definitely stung.

A few years later the movie comes out.

Yeah. How are you feeling

about it then?

I just can't believe it took like this life form

that was gonna like live on.

And I just remember thinking like, oh my god,

I cannot believe now I have to deal with like a movie.

People know you were Emily

and did you sort of not wanna share that

with people you were Emily for the rest of your life?

Well, I didn't realize it was like that was gonna happen.

I think people that knew me at the time,

you know, that were in like, you know, even PR

or working at brands, like they all knew that it was me.

But it was fictionalized.

So I was able mentally to like separate myself from it

where I didn't feel like it was this like horrible portrayal

of me per se.

Like I went to see the movie and I enjoyed the movie.

So I was able to like separate myself enough

to like enjoy it.

Why do you think the movie was different than the book?

Because I think that there was this fantasy element added

to it where to me it was, this was my real life

and I was like living it and I was stressed

or I was, you know, tired

or I made a mistake

or you know, I needed a paycheck,

you know, whatever it was.

To me, it was real.

But in the movie it just, it felt more of a fantasy

of what like this perception of the fashion industry is.

So that allowed me to enjoy it.

There's a joy to it.

It's optimistic.

It feels relatable

to anyone who's starting out in their career.

Whereas the book felt very specifically

about one experience.

Yeah, yeah.

I agree.

I think the editors did a fantastic job in adding

this element of Hollywood.

And you know, mass

and all of those things to get people to go and see it.

'Cause at the time I think people also would

turn their noses to fashion.

Or you know, it wasn't this like thing

that accepted everybody, it wasn't inclusive.

So I think the movie made it a little bit more inclusive

and romanticized it

and all of these things that made it entertainment.

But at the end of the day, it was still like my life.

It was hard to decipher.

Was there ever a real life version

of the Cerulean blue sweater moment where Lauren

was sort of explained the magnitude of the fashion industry?

Or you felt like you understood

how big an ecosystem this was?

Yeah, I think I was always trying to remind her

that this was something to take seriously

or I took it seriously.

And she really didn't.

So that really frustrated me.

I was like, this is a huge international business.

This is like an art form to lots of people.

People get dressed every day as an expression

of like who they are.

I took that seriously even though, you know,

obviously I know I'm not curing anything.

It was important to me, not being important to her

just really irked me.

We found an old Gawker piece.

Okay. That referenced

a July 2006 page six article.

The title is Leslie Fremar Haunts Lauren Weisberg's Dreams.

Oh my god, okay. And it speculates

that you're the real Emily.

And people in the comments said

that they found your Friendster account, that you seem nice

and they wondered if you were British

like Emily Blunt, did you ever see this?

I think someone showed at The Post,

The Post at the time would do blind items I guess.

So I felt embarrassed

but also like it could go away at that time

to today's news was, you know, yesterday's trash.

You know, it didn't live on quite like it does today.

So it could like, you know,

I could move on quicker.

It's true actually. If that makes sense.

It's not on the internet forever.

Right, right.

It's a different thing. Yeah, it felt like

it could be thrown out

and like people aren't looking at yesterday's paper.

They're only looking at it today.

So living in the moment felt more true then it didn't like

follow me as much as it would today probably.

Had you ever wanted to, I mean you've been

so discreet about this for two decades,

which I think is a testament to, you know, your respect

for this role and for Anna and Vogue.

But have you had complicated feelings when people say

that they're the real Emily

or talk about it,

I know Plum Sykes wrote a very funny article about

how her daughters are convinced she's the real Emily

and she sort of debunked that.

But circuitously, what has that experience

been like for you?

Well, I think obviously Anna's had many assistants

and I'm not the only one.

So I think all of those people

have a shared experience working for her

and have their own experiences.

But this very specific time in history

and this happening happened to me.

So it frustrated me a little like when we spoke,

I was like, I'm happy to come on your panel,

but it will be quite clear very quickly that it was me.

So I don't wanna make Kate uncomfortable,

I don't wanna make Plum uncomfortable.

Like I can kind of go along with the you know,

the lightness of it.

But it will become very clear quickly that it was me.

And then I don't want us having a conversation with that.

You know, I always felt sensitive to that.

Of course.

So it's weird like having a movie come out 20 years later

and then all of a sudden it's back.

You know, obviously I've moved past it all

and I still work in the business

and I'm able to kind of laugh it off.

But now it feels like yesterday somehow.

Is that why talk about it now 20 years later?

Yeah, I'm just like, you know what,

there's all this speculation.

Everyone really enjoyed the movie.

Anna's clearly embracing it.

And so why not?

You know, just put it out there

and I'm not really worried about the repercussions.

Like everyone has something to say.

That stuff doesn't really bother me.

It just felt like there was this curiosity.

And I was like, you know what, here we go.

Have you ever met Emily Blunt?

I have.

I have met Emily Blunt.

I was really, I'm never excited to meet anyone to be honest.

And I was always like,

if I meet Emily Blunt, what would I do?

So one day I was getting a massage at the Greenwich Hotel

and she was actually at the spa herself.

And I wanted to say something and I didn't.

So I let that moment pass me

and then a client of mine invited me over for dinner

to her house and there was like seven people there

and Emily was there.

So I was like, this is so intimate and personal

and we're at a mutual friend's house.

And so I said to her, I was like, I just need

to let you know I'm Emily.

She was not that interested to be honest.

I was like, I thought I was gonna get this like

huge reaction.

Like no, it was like, oh okay.

You know, I think people focus on is Anna really

like Miranda Priestly?

Are there any stories

of ways Anna would surprise

people by things she did?

Listen, I wanna firstly say that

Anna is my mentor through and through.

I learned everything that I know from Anna.

I would actually give her full credit for the way

that my life turned out.

And I'm very happy with how my life turned out.

So I'm very grateful to Anna.

I think the way she ran her office

without it feeling personal, I still do that to this day.

I think that that's a really efficient way of working

and it's able to keep boundaries.

And when the personal kind of invades the professional,

it becomes a little bit messier.

And I respected her process of that.

There was a story

that I thought was very touching about Anna

finding you crying one day.

Yes. Can you tell me about that?

I had just gotten a call from HR

and they had informed me

that my work visa from Canada was coming up

for renewal

and that the company had a new policy

that they were not gonna sponsor international employees

and that they were not gonna extend my working contract.

I was hysterical.

It was just like my life just like flashed before me.

Like I have to move home.

Like I have a life here, I have a job.

Like I didn't understand, I was hysterical.

I didn't know what was going on,

but I didn't know that Anna was coming in

because I was just kind of really emotional.

And she walked in and I was crying

and I didn't know that she was coming in

and she looked at me and it made her uncomfortable

and she didn't say anything and walked into her office

and I was embarrassed and couldn't stop crying though

because like I just, my life just basically blew up.

She waited a few minutes and then she called me into

the office and she's like,

it's horrible that I do her voice,

but she's like, Leslie, why are you crying?

And I was like, well I just got this call from HR

and you know, they let me know

that unfortunately they're not gonna extend

my working papers and there's a new policy

through the company

that you're just not sponsoring anymore.

And she goes, ugh, just stop crying.

And I was like, okay.

So I leave the office

and then she calls Cy Newhouse at the time

and asked him to come to her office and he walks in

and he's like the cutest little old man

and he just like is always wearing the same like sweatshirt.

I just remember so clearly

and the doors are open so I can hear everything.

And she's like, you need to make my assistant stop crying.

HR just told her that she no longer has a job

and you need to get her a visa.

And he was like, okay, done.

And you're still here. And I'm still here.

She got me my papers.

I love that. Yeah.

I just like wanted to hug her

and be like, thank you so much.

But like I think she just knew how grateful I was.

And there was no exchange of how grateful I was.

We didn't have that relationship.

But I hope and if she's listening, how grateful

I was to her.

You moved from Anna's office to working for Tonne

as her styling assistant.

How long did you work for Tonne?

Three years. Okay, and then?

I went to work at Prada.

Oh okay. So when the book came out,

The Devil Wears Prada, I was actually at Prada.

Oh my god.

I didn't know that. You can't make it up.

So I did the VIP department at Prada

for a really short time

and I met Selma Hayek when I was there

and she hired me freelance, so I left.

You came back to Vogue recently?

Yes. For a very special shoot.

Yes. Can you tell me about that?

Oh my god, this is a crazy story.

So I was literally in the middle of nowhere upstate

with my kids

and they were learning to ride dirt bikes

with some man like in a field.

Yeah. And my agent calls me

and was like, Anna Wintour wants to speak to you,

can you take the call?

And I was like, no.

Like I'm like my pajamas like in the middle of nowhere,

this man is like yelling at me.

My kids are like falling off bikes.

And I was like, I cannot, I had that panic

kind of come back that I like couldn't take the call.

Like I was almost caught too off guard.

Virginia called me

and was like, Anna suggested you for this job to work

with Kamala Harris. For the campaign.

Yes, for the campaign.

The presidential campaign. The presidential campaign.

She was looking for someone.

I was like, wow.

She's like, you know, just take the meeting with

the vice president and take it from there.

See what happens.

So I was like, okay.

So I took the meeting and the vice president

and I, you know, had similar points of view on what needed

to be done and Anna got me that opportunity.

She was shooting the cover of Vogue

and Anna actually allowed me to style the cover,

which was my first, I've been doing this

for a really long time, you know, 20 years.

And I had never, I'd styled many International Vogue

covers before but never an American Vogue cover.

And she let me do the cover

and that was my first American Vogue cover.

And it was like a full circle moment

and like probably my proudest moment.

It was the October 2024.

It was a digital cover and also in print.

But it first came out online

and it was right before the election.

So it was a very powerful, important moment.

And the vice president also knew how important it was

to me 'cause I had shared that story with her.

So it was just, I just felt really proud of that moment

and that will like kind of go down

as something I'm really proud of in my career.

Leslie, thank you so much.

We are so grateful to you coming.

I hope you enjoy the new movie.

I know, Ihave you seen it?

Yes.

Oh really? Are you coming on Monday?

Yes, I'm coming, I'm dying to see it.

Okay, good.

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